Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:25 am

Bill Schaefer wrote:
I guess this makes the Jets the originators of the style, right?

Yep, looks that way.
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:23 pm

Jets belt colors from 1964 - couldn't find anything from 1963:

Denver @ Jets 9/12/64 they look to be white...


Kansas City @ Jets 9/18/65 both teams are white...


Houston @ Jets 11/21/65


Houston @ Jets 9/18/66 Namath with the impressive vertical!!!
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  John C on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:12 pm

Exposed belts were very popular with the AFL/AFC teams going back to the 1960s. It also wasn't unusual for some players to have exposed belts while others did not in a given year. I don't have an account for Getty images, plus they do have issues with dates - I wouldn't trust the dates of a lot of their stuff; I once turned up a January 1970 dated photo of Bill Walton as a San Diego Clipper on Getty - something that is 100% impossible.

So - here are the years I recall that someone with an account can look up for verification:

AFC East:

Buffalo Bills - look for just two years, but they are significant years: 1973 and 1974 - covers Simpson's 2003 yard season, the first year of the "charging buffalo" headstock logo, and the years where the Utah stripes on the white jersey were red with blue outlines (instead of blue with red outlines). Blue belts on the white pants, red belts on the blue pants. I don't believe these were worn in 1972, and they definitely were gone with the 1975 redesign.

Miami Dolphins - I think you have it down; 1973 through 1987. They dropped the exposed belt when they got the aqua pants. Now it's hard to figure out the aqua belt versus orange belt, but it was mostly aqua with the white jersey and orange with the aqua jersey, but there could be a season or two where they only wore the aqua belt.

New England Patriots - I think the exposed belt goes back to the start of the screened-on stripe jerseys so try finding photos from 1973 and 1974. We know they have them by 1975, and they were worn all the way to the end of Pat Patriot in 1992.

New York Jets - If I'm remembering the Super Bowl III film correctly not all of the Jets were wearing exposed belts in that game. They were likely the first; I think Namath started it because that was how Alabamas pants were (and they would attach the hip pads to the pants with the belt instead of putting them in the girdle. The only years where they didn't have exposed belts would be the added black years (1990-1997); they currently use exposed belts.

AFC North:

The Balitmore Ravens, Cleveland Browns and Pittsburgh Steelers have never had exposed belts.

Cincinnati Bengals - I think the exposed belts start in 1973 for them; I know I've seen photos from 1974. Mostly black belts, but orange belts worn some games - I think they were more random as I've seen the orange with both black and white jerseys. Note that some players in 1980 have pants with wider stripes that don't have the exposed belts. Exposed belts eliminated in 1981 with the original tiger striped jerseys. EDIT: I had issues with the photos in the other thread yesterday; of course they start in 1970. Embarassed

AFC South:

The Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, and Tennessee Titans/Houston Oilers have never used exposed belts.

Indianapolis Colts - I think you have this one detailed pretty well - start the exposed belts in 1982 (the silver home pants and white pants with blue/silver/blue stripes). It looks like you have the proper belt usage for that era. The maintained blue exposed belts when they dropped the silver in 1988, and they briefly wore those blue pants with white belts in 1995. Exposed belts dropped (and back to white belts) in 2004.

AFC West:

The Denver Broncos, Kansas City Chiefs/Dallas Texans, and Oakland/LA/Oakland Raiders have never had exposed belts.

San Diego Chargers - They currently have exposed belts; navy with the navy striped white pants and the navy pants, powder blue with the power blue striped white pants. However, they do go back beyond 1985; the last year of the yellow pants in 1984 have exposed belts (these have the solid blue side panel with the white bolt inside it). They might go back a season or two earlier than that - start the search in 1979 when they went back to having bolts on the pants.

I can't recall any NFC team with exposed belts for any length of time - I think that some but not all Falcons had them for a few years in the mid-80s; it might correspond to the start of the black facemasks. Also some of these guys had red/white/black/white/red striped belts that matched the stripes on the white jerseys. Also did the Saints have exposed belts for the first season of the white pants? Thats all I can remember from the NFC; they mostly stayed away from that exposed belt style.


Last edited by John C on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:01 am

John C wrote:
Buffalo Bills - look for just two years, but they are significant years: 1973 and 1974 - covers Simpson's 2003 yard season, the first year of the "charging buffalo" headstock logo, and the years where the Utah stripes on the white jersey were red with blue outlines (instead of blue with red outlines). Blue belts on the white pants, red belts on the blue pants. I don't believe these were worn in 1972, and they definitely were gone with the 1975 redesign.

checked out '73 - '74 for Buffalo:
Buffalo @ New England 9/16/73 blue pants with exposed red belt


Buffalo @ San Diego 9/23/73 blue pants, blue belt (can't tell if it's exposed or not)


Buffalo @ Miami 10/21/73 white pants, belts not exposed


Miami @ Buffalo 9/22/74 white pants with exposed blue belt


Buffalo @ LA Rams 12/15/74 blue pants with exposed red belt


Buffalo @ New England 11/3/74 blue pants with exposed red belt


I'm pretty busy today, I don't know if I'll have time to dig more. We need more pics of the '73 Bills in white pants.

Regarding the belt colors, I believe it's red belts with blue pants and blue belts with white pants. The pic of OJ and Deacon Jones with OJ wearing a blue with blue is an anomaly. All the other pics of the Bills in blue pants had them with red belts.
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:43 pm

Buffalo @ San Diego 9/23/73 Simpson blue belt, teammate red belt


I'm not finding many pics of Buffalo in white pants for '73...can anyone take a guess here?


Again, Joe Ferguson wearing the normal style, but it could just be him...


Buffalo @ Atlanta 12/2/73


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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:28 pm

SUCCESS!

For 1973 the Bills pants are normal and the belts are blue.

Jets @ Buffalo 9/30/73
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-buffalo-bills-defense-takes-down-running-back-john-news-photo/80332599

Cincinnati @ Buffalo 11/11/73
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/running-back-o-j-simpson-of-the-buffalo-bills-carries-the-news-photo/149554331


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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  Agnetha on Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:42 pm

Another thing these photos reveal is that the Dolphins' orange pants stripes were a more yellowish-orange than the stripes on their jerseys and socks, which were a more reddish-orange, from at least 1977 to 1982. The oranges seemed to be matched in the early '70s and matched again after '82.

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:57 pm

Patriots for '73 - '74 look to be normal pants:

New England vs San Francisco Hall of Fame Game @ Canton 7/28/73


New England @ Miami 9/30/73


Buffalo @ New England 11/3/74


Last edited by bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  John C on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:23 pm

Excellent work - I need to get some accounts at these photo archive sites. I wasn't sure about the Patriots; I think that shows proof that they didn't go to the exposed belts until 1975.

Buffalo - it almost looks like the blue pants were exposed belts but the white ones were not in 1973, then the white ones change for 1974.

Also, one thing that makes this research difficult is players seemed to have more individual modifications back then. For example, Joe Washington pretty much modded his pants to have an exposed belt when he was with the Colts in 1978-1980 - but no other Colt had an exposed belt back then. He might have even done it with the Chargers, but he didn't do it with the Redskins.

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:53 pm

John C wrote:Excellent work - I need to get some accounts at these photo archive sites.

Hi John - the sites are free. Spokeo, Getty, US Presswire (now USA Today Sports), AP Images, Corbis all let you browse until your heart is content!

One other thing I noticed about the Jets --- the green stripes on the pants from the 60's through '71 were thinner with more white between them. Starting in '72 the green-white-green striping was about equal.
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Jets belt closure...

Post  Bill Schaefer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:32 pm

As a follow up, I found this photo from 12/1/1963 showing NYJ in white belts.


This confirms that NYJ went to white belts in 1963 until switching to the alternate style for 1968.

Summary:
1963-67 - normal white belts
1968-89 - alternate style with green belts
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Bills belts...

Post  Bill Schaefer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:43 pm

Regarding this latest find for Buffalo...

We are only talking about 2 years in total, right???

1973 - normal blue belt on white pants
- alternate style red belt on blue pants

1974 - alternate style blue belt on white pants
- alternate style red belt on blue pants

1975 - back to normal style pants/belts?
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Progress check...

Post  Bill Schaefer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:24 pm

I want to make sure I have the up-to-date research correct so check me...

Colts
1981 - switched to a regular blue belt
1982-2003 - alternate style (peek-a-boo) blue belt for all pants
2004-2011 - switched to regular white belt

Dolphins
1973-1982 - orange peek-a-boo belt
1983-1988 - aqua peek-a-boo belt
1989-1996 - regular orange belt for white AND aqua pants

Jets
1963-1967 - white regular belts
1968-1989 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts
1998-2011 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts on white and green pants

Bengals
1970-1976 - black peek-a-boo belts
1977-1978 - black peek-a-boo belt worn with white jerseys & orange peek-a-boo belt worn with black jerseys
1979-1980 - orange peek-a-boo belts

Patriots
1975-1992 - blue peek-a-boo belts worn with both red and white pants

Chargers
1985-2011 - blue/navy peek-a-boo belts with both white and navy pants
** - white peek-a-boo belts worn with all powder throwback uniforms

Bills
1973 - regular blue belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants
1974 - blue peek-a-boo belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:03 am

Bill Schaefer wrote:I want to make sure I have the up-to-date research correct so check me...

Colts
1981 - switched to a regular blue belt
1982-2003 - alternate style (peek-a-boo) blue belt for all pants
2004-2011 - switched to regular white belt

Dolphins
1973-1982 - orange peek-a-boo belt
1983-1988 - aqua peek-a-boo belt
1989-1996 - regular orange belt for white AND aqua pants

Jets
1963-1967 - white regular belts
1968-1989 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts
1998-2011 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts on white and green pants

Bengals
1970-1976 - black peek-a-boo belts
1977-1978 - black peek-a-boo belt worn with white jerseys & orange peek-a-boo belt worn with black jerseys
1979-1980 - orange peek-a-boo belts

Patriots
1975-1992 - blue peek-a-boo belts worn with both red and white pants

Chargers
1985-2011 - blue/navy peek-a-boo belts with both white and navy pants
** - white peek-a-boo belts worn with all powder throwback uniforms

Bills
1973 - regular blue belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants
1974 - blue peek-a-boo belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants

Sounds about right. Not bad for 5 days work, huh?
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  John C on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:43 pm

bigbluelarry wrote:
Bill Schaefer wrote:I want to make sure I have the up-to-date research correct so check me...

Colts
1981 - switched to a regular blue belt
1982-2003 - alternate style (peek-a-boo) blue belt for all pants
2004-2011 - switched to regular white belt

Dolphins
1973-1982 - orange peek-a-boo belt
1983-1988 - aqua peek-a-boo belt
1989-1996 - regular orange belt for white AND aqua pants

Jets
1963-1967 - white regular belts
1968-1989 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts
1998-2011 - green 'peek-a-boo' belts on white and green pants

Bengals
1970-1976 - black peek-a-boo belts
1977-1978 - black peek-a-boo belt worn with white jerseys & orange peek-a-boo belt worn with black jerseys
1979-1980 - orange peek-a-boo belts

Patriots
1975-1992 - blue peek-a-boo belts worn with both red and white pants

Chargers
1985-2011 - blue/navy peek-a-boo belts with both white and navy pants
** - white peek-a-boo belts worn with all powder throwback uniforms

Bills
1973 - regular blue belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants
1974 - blue peek-a-boo belt on white pants; peek-a-boo red belt on blue pants

Sounds about right. Not bad for 5 days work, huh?

Definitely!!! I finally did sign up for the free accounts; when I did searches without an account I would wind up getting bounced out sometimes.

I think the only thing missing from the list is the Chargers 2007-2011 powder blue alt uniform (the modern alt, not the throwbacks) also had a white exposed belt.

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Got another team - Atlanta

Post  John C on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:25 pm

Okay, I've got another team to add with exposed belts - the Atlanta Falcons. The era would be 1980, 1981 and maybe 1982. Getty doesn't have any shots from 1982 in their database, but I found these credited to 1980

From October 28, 1980:



From September 13, 1981:



By 1983 they are back to regular pants.

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Miami @ Atlanta 9/21/80 black belts w/white jersey




Jets @ Atlanta 10/12/80 red belts w/red jersey


Washington @ Atlanta 11/30/30 red belts w/red jersey


San Francisco @ Atlanta 9/29/81 red belts with both jerseys now




Giants @ Atlanta 10/25/81


Pittsburgh @ Atlanta 11/15/81


LA Raiders @ Atlanta 9/19/82




Green Bay @ Atlanta 12/26/82
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Atlanta belts...

Post  Bill Schaefer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:16 pm

OK.
So we're adding...

1980 - black belts with white jerseys and red belts with red jerseys

1981 & 1982 - red belts with both jerseys
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:27 pm

Bill Schaefer wrote:OK.
So we're adding...

1980 - black belts with white jerseys and red belts with red jerseys

1981 & 1982 - red belts with both jerseys

I think that closes Atlanta.

By the way, since you're redoing almost all of the Jets catalog, did you catch that one observation I made about their pants stripes? Go ahead and look them over and decide yourself, but I think from '63 - '71 the green stripes on the pants are thinner and have more white between them. Starting in '72 they look to be more equal (thicker green, less white).
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Jets...

Post  Bill Schaefer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:12 pm

OK, BBL, here's how I see it - compared to the equal sized G-W-G stripes we have now for 1963-78 (preseason)...

I put some more white in between the greens for 1963-71.

What I saw for 1972+ still, to me, looked like the white was still a bit wider than each of the green stripes but there was less white showing between the greens.

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:19 pm

Bill Schaefer wrote:OK, BBL, here's how I see it - compared to the equal sized G-W-G stripes we have now for 1963-78 (preseason)...

I put some more white in between the greens for 1963-71.

What I saw for 1972+ still, to me, looked like the white was still a bit wider than each of the green stripes but there was less white showing between the greens.


Magnificent - you nailed it!

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  Bill Schaefer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:01 pm

Smile

It's what I do!

Please just tell me there are no more.
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:23 pm

Bill Schaefer wrote:Smile

It's what I do!

Please just tell me there are no more.

Don't worry, I'm not going to look anymore...I'm already overdue with my next blog and I don't want to get in trouble with Rob. Embarassed

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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  bigbluelarry on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:49 am

I am apologizing in advance here Bill! I found this out by accident on the Giants website while reading about their new alternate pants for 2013. They showed a picture of Brad Van Pelt in 1976 wearing blue pants with a white belt, and I felt obligated to do some digging...

So, the Giants wore white belts with blue pants in 1975 and 1976 (normal, not peek-a-boo).

Giants @ Washington 9/28/75


Giants @ Jets Preseason 1976
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/s-running-back-larry-csonka-of-the-new-york-giants-carries-news-photo/98288937

Giants @ LA Rams 9/26/76


Giants @ Washington 10/23/77 all blue


Giants @ St.Louis 10/31/77 all blue


Giants @ Atlanta 10/1/78 all blue
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Re: Unusual Pants (did that get your attention?)

Post  Bill Schaefer on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:52 pm

Sigh.

Plain white belts is OK and quick no problem.

Is it just me or does that first photo look too 'blue' to not be...enhanced?

Also, do we know if they went with blue or white belts in the white pants these years?
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