A few NYG recommendations.

Great job with the new website, I love it!

In either 1948 or 49 the Giants changed the pattern on their final leather helmet. They ditched the winged pattern and replaced it with a cross (something like the Brooklyn Dodgers).

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U1132099A/charley-conerly-holding-football/?tab=details&caller=search

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U1132099/football-player-charley-conerly/?tab=details&caller=search

Also, I believe that the representation of the winged helmet that you have should be red like in the helmet shown in these pictures. The only part that was blue was the crown.

They wore blue belts from the mid 70's through 1984.





In 1985 they switched to white belts, and changed their number font to one that was thinner.

1984:


1985:

I think these are significant and unique to the Giants and Steelers.

The Giants used 3 different fonts for theirs.

A small, rounded one from '57 - '66:


A larger, thinner one from '67 - '74:


When they brought them back in 2000 they've used a block font matching the jersey numbers:

I'll be working on a good deal of what you presented us with in the AM so stay tuned, BBL.
In our 'About the Template' helmet numbers were one of things we had to sacrifice since it is nearly impossible to do them any credit on the 2-D helmet models we are using. If we're ever able to go to spinning 3-D helmets, then we'll be in business.
Thanks for the all the help and come back again soon and often.

Hey guys, the pants the Giants wore for the majority of the 1961 season had just two red stripes running down the side, there was no white center stripe.

The B&W picture from the title game show a nice contrast with GB's pants where you can clearly see the thin white stripe they had against the yellow at the time, and the Giants were just red on grey (Getty has a ton of pictures from that game).









Keep up the good work, this site is excellent.

so here's the address:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/80372392/Getty-Images-Sport

great mystery about who wore what pants and when!! if you look at one of the pics in that getty series you can clearly see Jimmy Patton (#20) approaching Hornung wearing the 'traditional' 3-striped pants..

Yes, that's true. There's another one with with Dick Modzelweski (#77) wearing the old 3-stripe one's too. I guess that was before the NFL had the uniform police handing out fines!

Here you can clearly see QB YA Tittle (#14), HB Bob Gaiters (#35), FB Alex Webster (#29) and TE Joe Walton (#80) wearing the 2 red stripe pants. The partially obscured player on one knee (I believe it's G Darrell Dess #62) is wearing the 1957-60 3 stripe pants, which was not uncommon during the time.

Hmmmm, that one doesn't want to display either.

Anyway, here's the address for it. The AP site has a lot of pictures that season, this one was particularly good.

http://www.apimages.com/OneUp.aspx?st=k&kw=%22new%20york%20giants%22%201961&showact=results&sort=relevance&intv=None&sh=10&dtebf=11%2F12%2F1961&dteaf=11%2F12%2F1961&kwstyle=or&adte=1308157748&pagez=60&cfasstyle=AND&rids=aa930cfd17614794b746e1cb35b3102b&dbm=PY2000&page=1&xslt=1&mediatype=Photo

bbl,

I have a question for you.

The Alex Webster posed photo looks like white pants with the 2 red stripes. But both B/W photos look grey. The Packers pic is definitely grey against the GMen white jerseys. The Eagles pic is definitely grey against the Eagles white jerseys. Why the white pants on the posed pic? Or do you think that was just a result of 'flash' photography?

Bill

I second that question... is there any chance they wore white pants in games with blue jerseys in 1961 and only wore the gray pants with the white jerseys

No, they are definitely grey. The Giants did not wear white until the total uniform overhaul in 1966.

There are other similar posed photos of the Giants from training camp in 1961 wearing those pants with the 2 grey stripes, the Frank Gifford one is usually pretty easy to find.

Also, in that picture of Webster, you can see that the pants had that different fabric that's been discussed with the 49'ers of the era. You can see the Giants also wore the same 2 fabric style with the solid stripe pants from '62 - '65.

Pants are grey, compare them to the white socks.

I see your point about the pants looking somewhat lighter in the color versions, but they are definitely grey, not white.

The shiny fabric from the front half of the pants is clearly evident.

Let me ask you this, bbl...

On several occasions in our research, we've run into stuff like this.

Bengals had a mix in the late 60's -early 70's with a wide center orange stripe vs a stripe that was same width as the 2 flanking black stripes.
Early Saints unis had a mix of W-B-W and B-W-B on their gold pants.

The Saints mix was so evenly distributed we felt the need to show both. The Bengals, not so much, since only a few were unlike the others.

In your opinion the majority had the 2 stripes in '61 and only a few had the leftovers from 1960 - or the other way around?

Bill

A few players occasionally would wear the 3 stripe pants from previous seasons

I took a peek and was surprised to see that we actually had both sets. Albeit the '2-stripes' we were showing with white between the reds which we'll fix.

A) So the 3 stripe combos aren't worth having (kinda like the "oddities")?

B) We also have a second set based on no helmet logo/helmet logo. Do you happen to know when the logo was added to the helmet?

If you guys note for 1961, we also have all combos with and without the ny on the helmet. From what I've seen of pics from that season, maybe a 15%-20% ratio of players did not have a logo on the helmet.

BBL, do you have a thought on if the plain blue helmet should stay or go for 1961?

And BBL, we aappreciate your comments and kind contributions!!

It's funny how disorganized the Giants seemed to be for this season. In any given game you're likely see both sets of pants, and an occasional player with a logo-less helmet.



This picture was taken at Washington on opening day. Y.A. Tittle is wearing the '60 pants and the player blocking his blind-side (#35) is missing the "ny" on his helmet - and this was on the cover of Sports Illustrated!

I've never seen any evidence of the entire Giant team not having the "ny" on the helmet. If they did, I'd assume it was the Pre Season. The pants thing, though seemingly random, occurred often enough throughout the year that I'd be inclined to display both sets for the '61 season.

Your welcome - I love this site and am happy to contribute in my small way. I've been a passionate football fan since my youth and have accumulated a decent sized football library. I could spend hours just gazing over the photos from the formative years of the NFL, it's always fascinated me, the uniforms are just one part of it.

Keep up the good work!

Here's a version of that picture without the SI print.



In this one, Rosey Brown is blocking behind Tittle. Unfortunately we can't see his pants stripe, but he does have the "ny" logo on his helmet.

I know you guys are real busy getting this great website up and running, plus I've made more than my share of suggestions so far, others deserve attention.

Anyway, I noticed that you have the change of the Giants brighter toned jerseys occurring in 1991 - that actually happened in 1989. The Giants changed the fabric of their uniforms after the '88 season, giving them a slightly more vibrant look (especially over the shoulders & sleeves; which wasn't really noticeable on the white jerseys).

Here are examples:

1988 (the duller, flatter appearance of the mesh jersey)


1989 (new, brighter material)


I know it's a subtle difference, so I tried to get similar pictures in terms of setting and lighting - hence two day games at Giants Stadium of the same player.

Have fun with the website, I'll keep checking in and keep up the good work!
Larry Schmitt