More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

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More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:53 pm

This was a smaller font version I only saw on players in 1977 games.




1979 game at LA. I don't believe the "serif" style was introduced for the Giants until 1978.



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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:13 pm

here are some more from 1977. You can see there is a clear difference between the normal block font (which is really a bold block) and the smaller font. By 1978 the smaller font was gone and the serif appeared.

Gordon Gravelle with the smaller type font, the other linemen with the bold block


The QBs had different font styles. Joltin' Joe Pisarcik with the bold block...



...and a closer look at the legendary QB backup Jerry Golsteyn with the smaller font:




Most used in '77 and '78 was the bold block




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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:37 pm

Looking at 1976....

The blue uniforms appear to have exclusively used a basic block font (not the bold block that became prevalent in '77 and '78). This block font had slightly smaller point size than the bold block, and was less squeezed together than the bold block.




Stormin' Norman Snead in basic block:




In '76, different story with the whites. The most commonly used font was the heavy bold block, which was used for the first time by the Giants this particular season.



However, sometimes the basic block was used on the whites as well:


I haven't looked at '75 yet, but I don't recall there being much in terms of font inconsistencies from that period.





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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:03 pm

OK guys I did some tinkering based on the photos and captions in this thread.
Let me know if something is there that shouldn't be or if I forgot to include something.
Also, the seriffed font that I used for 1978 looks dead on to me - especially when I used it to spell out SCALES and TAYLOR like in the picture.
My question is did it stay spread out like that for the duration (through 1994) or did it get a little more closed up without the extra space eventually like we have it now?
Here's what I came up with...
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:22 pm

Bill this was a great effort. I think you're almost there. I agree, you nailed the 1978 spread out font. The Giants also used this spread out font in 1979, pics to come. I will check on the 1980s.

I have some suggestions for the others, although think they're very close. I think the basic block letters on the 1976-78 jerseys should be slightly wider, the letters appear to narrow.

The bold block used for 1976 whites and 1977-78 blue and whites, needs to be included for 1979 blue jerseys. Also, the thickness of the bold block letters should be even heavier/bolder so there is less space between the letters (look at how heavy the PISARCIK font is, there is barely any spacing between the letters). However, a less heavy bold block was used for the 1978-79 road whites (pics to come tomorrow).

I also think you perfected the "small block" font used exclusively in 1977.

I just finished some more work going through the Giants 1978-1981. The good news is that beginning in 1980, the Giants finally stayed with ONE CONSISTENT FONT and that's the serif that we became used to when they were winning Super Bowls. The bad news is, there are going to be some slight modifications to the 1978 whites and the 1979 blue and whites, alluded to above. I will post those photos tomorrow.

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:39 pm

So how's this?

I thickened the bold block to the point where its almost unreadable.
I found a squarish regular block that matches up really well with "VAN HORN," "COUSINS," and "CHANDLER" and I think the size is a pretty good match too.
What do you say?
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:33 am

Bill, I think you got it down perfectly now! I am about to post some slight mods however based on more screen captures.... I think you have the fonts down right, it's just a matter of pinpointing which were used during which seasons as I move into the 80s. Again, fortunately things became a lot simpler starting in 1980.

I honestly cannot believe the variations in both New York teams throughout the 70s. I don't think any other teams come close to it, but perhaps more research will reveal otherwise.

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Let me first start by indentifying each type of font Bill created by name and number. Let's go with this:

1. Heavy bold block - used 1977-79 blues and 1976-77 whites.
2. Bold block - used 1978-79 whites (NEW, see pic below)
3. Basic block - used 1976-77 blues and 1976-77 whites
4. Small block - used 1977 blues only
5. Basic serif - used 1978-into 1990s both blues and whites
6. Stretched serif - used 1978-into at least 1982 both blues and whites

Bill just one comment on your 1980 serif. The 1980 serif letters appear to be narrower and taller than the 1978-79 serif. The serif font size should be consistent from its inception in 1978 at least into 1982. The only variation is how stretched out the names were (spacing in between letters).

The new font I've added is "bold block" which was used only on the 1978 and 1979 whites. This font was not as heavy as the "heavy bold block" used on the 1976-79 blues and 1976-77 whites:

"Bold block" from 1978:




"Bold block" and stretched serif used together in same game, 1978:


"Bold block" from 1979:


Here are more photos:

1978, blue serif stretched, J.T. Turner (notice the "R" appears to be affixed backwards)


1978, white basic serif ('78 was the first year the Giants used serif font)


1978, white stretched serif


1978, blue stretched serif


1978, white stretched serif and bold block mixed


1979, blue "heavy bold block"


1979, blue "heavy bold block", "stretched serif" and "basic serif" mixed


1979, white "stretched serif" and "bold block" mixed


By 1980, we finally stopped the madness a bit. With the rollout of the Giants cleaned up uniforms and slightly modified helmet, we saw them consistently use just one type of font, the serif that was rolled out in 1978. The only variations were that some players names were stretched out and some were not as much. This lasted at least through 1982.

1980:



1981:



1982:











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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:17 pm

so to summarize using this as a key:

1. Heavy bold block - used 1977-79 blues and 1976-77 whites.
2. Bold block - used 1978-79 whites (NEW, see pic below)
3. Basic block - used 1976-77 blues and 1976-77 whites
4. Small block - used 1977 blues only
5. Basic serif - used 1978-into 1990s both blues and whites
6. Stretched serif - used 1978-into at least 1982 both blues and whites


1976 blues - 3
1976 whites - 1, 3

1977 blues - 1, 3, 4
1977 whites - 1, 3

1978 blues - 1, 5, 6
1978 whites - 2, 5, 6

1979 blues - 1, 5, 6
1979 whites - 2, 5, 6

1980 to ? blues - 5, 6
1980 to ? whites - 5, 6

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:23 pm

Ken,
I think I've got what you describe.


I went back to the original bold block (before I made it the 'heavy' bold block) for the 'regular bold block.'

The only lingering question is...At what point do I no longer need BOTH the regular serif and the spaced regular serif?
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:30 pm

Yeah, this looks perfect now. You can use the same template for 1981 and 1982 as you did for 1980. I'm going through 1983, 84, 85 etc. shortly to see how long the stretched serif was used for.

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:46 pm

I'm wondering...
since we're at 1980 with only the 2 identical seriffs (if you'll pardon the pun) seperated by the difference in spacing, would it not make better sense to kinda split the difference and only show the jerseys once each?
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:42 pm

Bill, I'm OK with that but it's your call. As I drill into other teams, I'm sure there will be a few other examples where teams used the same font but sometimes spaced it differently on players (the '72 Browns come to mind off the top of my head). So how you want to display that here could become the template going forward.

I just checked the Giants for '83, '84 and '85. Same exact thing as '80-'82. Some players had lots of spacing, some didn't. Here are some grabs:

1984


1985



I have noticed that the most egregious spacing occurred from 1978-1981. Seems to be toned down slightly starting in 1982.

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:01 pm

Also seems to me the ones with a lot of spacing are the shorter names. (Duh!)

I'll consult with Tim on how he thinks we should show this.

Thanks for the assist! I'm sure we'll be at it again soon on the Jets.

Bill
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Ken Adams on Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:26 am

You bet, Bill. After the Giants, most other teams should be a picnic! Well, except for the Jets perhaps. :-)

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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:18 am

Dare I even ask if this continued beyond 85?
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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Bill Schaefer on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:27 am

OK I did some digging using Phil Simms. Short enough name that if there's going to be extra spacing, he'd have it.

1986 no extra spaces


1985 no extra spaces


1984 is a tough call
December Wild Card Playoff at LA - even though his jerseys getting pulled, there looks to be spacing between the S and the I


Early 1984 - also at LA, there is some amount of space between letters that appears less than the WC photo - probably from the stretching.


My conclusion...
We should probably show spacing differentials up through 1984.


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Re: More Giants font discrepancies 1976-79

Post  Market42 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:48 am

Ken Adams wrote:
1985




Something else I saw in the 1985 pic that caught my attention, as I had thought that the numerals went to the traditional block number style across the board by then. Maybe it may have been a player-by-player case for 1985 and the traditional style might have been standardarized by 1986.

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