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A few NYG recommendations.

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Post  bigbluelarry Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:34 pm

Great job with the new website, I love it!

In either 1948 or 49 the Giants changed the pattern on their final leather helmet. They ditched the winged pattern and replaced it with a cross (something like the Brooklyn Dodgers).

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U1132099A/charley-conerly-holding-football/?tab=details&caller=search

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/U1132099/football-player-charley-conerly/?tab=details&caller=search

Also, I believe that the representation of the winged helmet that you have should be red like in the helmet shown in these pictures. The only part that was blue was the crown.



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A few NYG recommendations. Empty The Giants made a couple of subtle changes from 1984 into 1985.

Post  bigbluelarry Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:43 pm

They wore blue belts from the mid 70's through 1984.

A few NYG recommendations. 73517316

A few NYG recommendations. 78797905

In 1985 they switched to white belts, and changed their number font to one that was thinner.

A few NYG recommendations. 73632403

A few NYG recommendations. 103153241



Last edited by bigbluelarry on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Here's a better example of the '84 - '85 changes.

Post  bigbluelarry Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:54 pm

1984:
A few NYG recommendations. 81368822

1985:
A few NYG recommendations. 79442819


Last edited by bigbluelarry on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Are there plans to show the helmet numbers?

Post  bigbluelarry Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:14 pm

I think these are significant and unique to the Giants and Steelers.

The Giants used 3 different fonts for theirs.

A small, rounded one from '57 - '66:
A few NYG recommendations. 81801753

A larger, thinner one from '67 - '74:
A few NYG recommendations. 109029416

When they brought them back in 2000 they've used a block font matching the jersey numbers:
A few NYG recommendations. 51581879


Last edited by bigbluelarry on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Bill Schaefer Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:19 pm

I'll be working on a good deal of what you presented us with in the AM so stay tuned, BBL.
In our 'About the Template' helmet numbers were one of things we had to sacrifice since it is nearly impossible to do them any credit on the 2-D helmet models we are using. If we're ever able to go to spinning 3-D helmets, then we'll be in business.
Thanks for the all the help and come back again soon and often.
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty 1961 pants stripes.

Post  bigbluelarry Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:10 am

Hey guys, the pants the Giants wore for the majority of the 1961 season had just two red stripes running down the side, there was no white center stripe.

The B&W picture from the title game show a nice contrast with GB's pants where you can clearly see the thin white stripe they had against the yellow at the time, and the Giants were just red on grey (Getty has a ton of pictures from that game).

A few NYG recommendations. Normal_alexwebster8x10

A few NYG recommendations. Hulton-Archive

A few NYG recommendations. Getty-Images-Sport

A few NYG recommendations. Diamond-Images

Keep up the good work, this site is excellent.
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty that picture doesn't want to display

Post  bigbluelarry Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:21 am

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Post  nybatt Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:12 am

great mystery about who wore what pants and when!! if you look at one of the pics in that getty series you can clearly see Jimmy Patton (#20) approaching Hornung wearing the 'traditional' 3-striped pants..

A few NYG recommendations. 80372392


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Post  bigbluelarry Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:16 am

Yes, that's true. There's another one with with Dick Modzelweski (#77) wearing the old 3-stripe one's too. I guess that was before the NFL had the uniform police handing out fines!
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Another example of different stripes in the same game from 1961.

Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:10 pm

Here you can clearly see QB YA Tittle (#14), HB Bob Gaiters (#35), FB Alex Webster (#29) and TE Joe Walton (#80) wearing the 2 red stripe pants. The partially obscured player on one knee (I believe it's G Darrell Dess #62) is wearing the 1957-60 3 stripe pants, which was not uncommon during the time.

A few NYG recommendations. Giantsvseagles1961

A few NYG recommendations. OneUp
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Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:12 pm

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Post  Bill Schaefer Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:05 pm

bbl,

I have a question for you.

The Alex Webster posed photo looks like white pants with the 2 red stripes. But both B/W photos look grey. The Packers pic is definitely grey against the GMen white jerseys. The Eagles pic is definitely grey against the Eagles white jerseys. Why the white pants on the posed pic? Or do you think that was just a result of 'flash' photography?

Bill
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Post  Rob Holecko Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:19 pm

I second that question... is there any chance they wore white pants in games with blue jerseys in 1961 and only wore the gray pants with the white jerseys
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Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:42 pm

No, they are definitely grey. The Giants did not wear white until the total uniform overhaul in 1966.

There are other similar posed photos of the Giants from training camp in 1961 wearing those pants with the 2 grey stripes, the Frank Gifford one is usually pretty easy to find.
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Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Also, in that picture of Webster, you can see that the pants had that different fabric that's been discussed with the 49'ers of the era. You can see the Giants also wore the same 2 fabric style with the solid stripe pants from '62 - '65.
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Y.A. Tittle - B&W from training camp.

Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:48 pm

Pants are grey, compare them to the white socks.

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Here's the Frank Gifford picture.

Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:52 pm

A few NYG recommendations. Image

I see your point about the pants looking somewhat lighter in the color versions, but they are definitely grey, not white.
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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Here's a good game photo of Tittle from '61.

Post  bigbluelarry Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:35 pm

The shiny fabric from the front half of the pants is clearly evident.

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty '61 GMen pants mix

Post  Bill Schaefer Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:02 pm

Let me ask you this, bbl...

On several occasions in our research, we've run into stuff like this.

Bengals had a mix in the late 60's -early 70's with a wide center orange stripe vs a stripe that was same width as the 2 flanking black stripes.
Early Saints unis had a mix of W-B-W and B-W-B on their gold pants.

The Saints mix was so evenly distributed we felt the need to show both. The Bengals, not so much, since only a few were unlike the others.

In your opinion the majority had the 2 stripes in '61 and only a few had the leftovers from 1960 - or the other way around?

Bill

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Yes - the "official" 1961 pants would be the grey with 2 red stipes.

Post  bigbluelarry Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:03 am

A few players occasionally would wear the 3 stripe pants from previous seasons
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Post  Bill Schaefer Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:40 am

I took a peek and was surprised to see that we actually had both sets. Albeit the '2-stripes' we were showing with white between the reds which we'll fix.

A) So the 3 stripe combos aren't worth having (kinda like the "oddities")?

B) We also have a second set based on no helmet logo/helmet logo. Do you happen to know when the logo was added to the helmet?
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Post  timmyb Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:13 am

If you guys note for 1961, we also have all combos with and without the ny on the helmet. From what I've seen of pics from that season, maybe a 15%-20% ratio of players did not have a logo on the helmet.

BBL, do you have a thought on if the plain blue helmet should stay or go for 1961?

And BBL, we aappreciate your comments and kind contributions!!

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Re: '61 inconsistencies.

Post  bigbluelarry Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:03 am

It's funny how disorganized the Giants seemed to be for this season. In any given game you're likely see both sets of pants, and an occasional player with a logo-less helmet.

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This picture was taken at Washington on opening day. Y.A. Tittle is wearing the '60 pants and the player blocking his blind-side (#35) is missing the "ny" on his helmet - and this was on the cover of Sports Illustrated!

I've never seen any evidence of the entire Giant team not having the "ny" on the helmet. If they did, I'd assume it was the Pre Season. The pants thing, though seemingly random, occurred often enough throughout the year that I'd be inclined to display both sets for the '61 season.

Your welcome - I love this site and am happy to contribute in my small way. I've been a passionate football fan since my youth and have accumulated a decent sized football library. I could spend hours just gazing over the photos from the formative years of the NFL, it's always fascinated me, the uniforms are just one part of it.

Keep up the good work!

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Additional photos from the same game as above.

Post  bigbluelarry Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:34 am

Here's a version of that picture without the SI print.

A few NYG recommendations. NSAPNL33LYA_LARGE_display_image

In this one, Rosey Brown is blocking behind Tittle. Unfortunately we can't see his pants stripe, but he does have the "ny" logo on his helmet.

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A few NYG recommendations. Empty Just one more from me, then I'm going to take a break for a while...

Post  bigbluelarry Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:34 pm

I know you guys are real busy getting this great website up and running, plus I've made more than my share of suggestions so far, others deserve attention.

Anyway, I noticed that you have the change of the Giants brighter toned jerseys occurring in 1991 - that actually happened in 1989. The Giants changed the fabric of their uniforms after the '88 season, giving them a slightly more vibrant look (especially over the shoulders & sleeves; which wasn't really noticeable on the white jerseys).

Here are examples:

1988 (the duller, flatter appearance of the mesh jersey)
A few NYG recommendations. 71345142

1989 (new, brighter material)
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I know it's a subtle difference, so I tried to get similar pictures in terms of setting and lighting - hence two day games at Giants Stadium of the same player.

Have fun with the website, I'll keep checking in and keep up the good work!
Larry Schmitt


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