Independent Teams

**Rob Holecko** Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:12 pm

I was asked a question about merging teams and I have decided that it is time to announce something that I have been thinking about implementing....

There will be an additional tier of teams below Division II, which will be considered independent teams. Think of it essentially as 'Division III', however with a few distinctions.

1. Any teams that don't qualify for to return to Division II, and do not get a spot in the 48 returning teams, will be permitted to continue playing as independent teams.
2. Potential expansion teams that are not selected may compete as independent teams.
~~3. Teams that finish above .500 (after Union Cup games for the purposes of teams 'playing their way in') are required to return, however the Peddle Rule may still come into effect there.~~
4. ~~Relocation is permitted to avoid the Peddle Rule, however merging two franchise will be allowed, but it will only be permitted at the Commisioner's discretion on a case-by-case basis.~~ Merging and relocation is discouraged, but may be permitted.
5. Independent teams are permitted to schedule their own games against other independent teams, league teams or fictional teams. We will not mandate any games for you~~, and you are ineligible for the Union Cup or Bowl Games~~. However we will maintain your records and the UWFFL will simulate any games that independent teams request to be contested. These teams will be eligible to return to the league should an owner have an opening due to promotion.
6. So if a team that is not automatically qualified to return is offered a spot in a Division II league that would require the owner to give it up due to the Peddle Rule, the owner can decline the spot and retain it as an independent team.

I would rather have team identities stay intact rather than a whole lot of merging taking place.

What I envision happening is we'll have a thread where Independent teams can post and contact each other, for instance, say Curtis has Memphis and Andrew has Virginia Beach and Houston. Andrew might post that Virginia Beach and Houston have agreed to a home-and-home series on Nov. 3 and Nov. 24. And then Curtis might contact Andrew and they might agree to a game between Memphis and Houston on October 25, etc.

This is a new idea, and I am open to further suggestions, please let's discuss it and ask any further questions here....

**Rob Holecko** Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:32 pm

7. A team's record as an independent team will become part of it's "portfolio" and may be considered by the league for the purposes of future league expansion.

If a group of independent teams were to organize and form their own conference, there would be nothing the UWFFL could do to stop it. They would be able to set their own rules, schedules, and operate as they wish, for example, set up a Conference Championship game etc. There will be a process developed in which the UWFFL will allow such an organized group of teams to petition to be sanctioned as an official "Division III" Conference. Such a conference would have the option of having the UWFFL simulate their games, or another Simulation entity, or developing their own game simulation process.

Curtis Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:31 am

Rob Holecko wrote:I was asked a question about merging teams and I have decided that it is time to announce something that I have been thinking about implementing....

There will be an additional tier of teams below Division II, which will be considered independent teams. Think of it essentially as 'Division III', however with a few distinctions.

1. Any teams that don't qualify for to return to Division II, and do not get a spot in the 48 returning teams, will be permitted to continue playing as independent teams.
2. Potential expansion teams that are not selected may compete as independent teams.
~~3. Teams that finish above .500 (after Union Cup games for the purposes of teams 'playing their way in') are required to return, however the Peddle Rule may still come into effect there.~~
4. ~~Relocation is permitted to avoid the Peddle Rule, however merging two franchise will be allowed, but it will only be permitted at the Commisioner's discretion on a case-by-case basis.~~ Merging and relocation is discouraged, but may be permitted.
5. Independent teams are permitted to schedule their own games against other independent teams, league teams or fictional teams. We will not mandate any games for you, and you are ineligible for the Union Cup or Bowl Games. However we will maintain your records and the UWFFL will simulate any games that independent teams request to be contested. These teams will be eligible to return to the league should an owner have an opening due to promotion.
6. So if a team that is not automatically qualified to return is offered a spot in a Division II league that would require the owner to give it up due to the Peddle Rule, the owner can decline the spot and retain it as an independent team.

I would rather have team identities stay intact rather than a whole lot of merging taking place.

What I envision happening is we'll have a thread where Independent teams can post and contact each other, for instance, say Curtis has Memphis and Andrew has Virginia Beach and Houston. Andrew might post that Virginia Beach and Houston have agreed to a home-and-home series on Nov. 3 and Nov. 24. And then Curtis might contact Andrew and they might agree to a game between Memphis and Houston on October 25, etc.

This is a new idea, and I am open to further suggestions, please let's discuss it and ask any further questions here....

Great idea sounds good to me. I didn`t really want to merge franchises too, because as you said each team has its own identity.

Having said that , maybe the CP ownership group will wait and see what some teams records are after the Union Cup , find out who is above .500 , and required to return to the UWFFL.

Taking a guess here but here`s the update :

Memphis - ? poor record - retain - Independent league
Portland - ? maybe above .500 - retain - TBA ? Independent League
Staten Island - available to transfer to Rob Holecko
Philadelphia - available to transfer - ? Rob Holecko
Indiana - ? under .500 - retain - independent league
Wichita - ? under .500 - retain - Independent League

Retain - St. John`s , Toledo, Iowa, Missouri , BC.

Man I`ve been losing sleep over this. The Peddle rule is kickin my ass.

I would, however like to design a logo/patch for the new Independent League. Is approval required ? Is there any relation to the UWFFL ? For example can the UWFFL patch be displayed on the pants or is it not associated at all ?

**Rob Holecko** Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:23 am

It will not be an independent league with an identity... But if a group of independent teams want to form a Conference, then you can design a patch for that.

And they will not be considered "UWFFL" teams while they are independent.

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Okay this is getting to be too much.... I have decided to simplify this...

We will keep the Peddle Rule, you can only have 4 teams, 1 in each league, but you can withdraw any teams you want and keep them as independent teams, no teams will be forced to return and removed from your ownership.

I don't like where this is going, where owners have to choose which teams to keep and be forced to give teams up. We'll force you to only have 4 at Division II level, but it's wrong to force you to give them up.

So you can keep Staten Island, Toledo, Portland, Philadelphia, all teams that you can't fit in your four teams as independent teams... Andrew can keep Cleveland, Houston, Virginia Beach, et cetera.

Just decide which 4 you want to keep and let us know. To keep Portland & British Columbia, yea I guess you'd have to move one of them a little eastward.... we'd prefer it to be British Columbia since there is another team in Vancouver, and we'd like to keep a presence in Portland. However, it's up to you. But if you want to make British Columbia an independent, they'd be a very strong independent team.

We will also reconsider whether independent teams can qualify for Bowls and the Union Cup.

I guess I'm going to do another show today, lol

Greg Dickman Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:28 am

Rob Holecko wrote:I guess I'm going to do another show today, lol

okay, let me hop in the shower... I'll be at the studio in an hour. Sigh.

**Rob Holecko** Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:34 am

Going further in this thread I will ask owners to post here their teams that will be independent. Owners can contact each other here and schedule games against each other.

I will start by posting here that the New Orleans Lions will be competing as an independent team in 2021.

Independent Teams NO_2

Curtis Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:51 am

Rob Holecko wrote:It will not be an independent league with an identity... But if a group of independent teams want to form a Conference, then you can design a patch for that.

And they will not be considered "UWFFL" teams while they are independent.

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Okay this is getting to be too much.... I have decided to simplify this...

We will keep the Peddle Rule, you can only have 4 teams, 1 in each league, but you can withdraw any teams you want and keep them as independent teams, no teams will be forced to return and removed from your ownership.

I don't like where this is going, where owners have to choose which teams to keep and be forced to give teams up. We'll force you to only have 4 at Division II level, but it's wrong to force you to give them up.

So you can keep Staten Island, Toledo, Portland, Philadelphia, all teams that you can't fit in your four teams as independent teams... Andrew can keep Cleveland, Houston, Virginia Beach, et cetera.

Just decide which 4 you want to keep and let us know. To keep Portland & British Columbia, yea I guess you'd have to move one of them a little eastward.... we'd prefer it to be British Columbia since there is another team in Vancouver, and we'd like to keep a presence in Portland. However, it's up to you. But if you want to make British Columbia an independent, they'd be a very strong independent team.

We will also reconsider whether independent teams can qualify for Bowls and the Union Cup.

I guess I'm going to do another show today, lol

Ok thanks commish, don’t want to be a pain in the ass here lol , let’s do this :

Eastern - St. John’s
Central - BC Lumberjacks - transfer to Central , city and name TBA.
Metro South - Missouri
PCC - Portland
Premier - Iowa

Independent - Toledo, Wichita, Philadelphia, Memphis, Indiana

Rob Holecko - I am offering the Staten Island Swordfish to you , as you need an Eastern Team. They are too good to be in the Independent and I would like you to have them .

Patty O’Lee

**Rob Holecko** Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:01 am

Sounds good... and I will accept Staten Island then!

Curtis Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:38 am

Rob Holecko wrote:Sounds good... and I will accept Staten Island then!

Would you like me to email you the png files I have for the Swordfish ?

**Rob Holecko** Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:01 pm

Sure that's fine

Drew Abernathy Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:47 pm

Barnstorming!!

Kinda like BYU last season!

**Austin Snelick** Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:21 pm

This suggestion may be out there, but it's an alternative solution to the Peddle rule.

The Peddle League (or whatever he would want to call it).

What would this mean?
Curtis would literally create his own league for all of his many teams. He can make it any size he wants, do the simulation any way he wants, and in the end, any team that qualifies makes it's way to the Champions League or Union Cup, or whatever.
This gives Curtis the ability to have as many teams as he'd like, plus keep a number of teams that will be lost to the peddle rule.

Downsides. The UWFFL's current conferences and leagues would lose some teams. Also, what happens to Curtis' teams that have already gone under new ownership due to the Peddle rule?

Just another option to think about.

**Rob Holecko** Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:48 pm

Well in the way I've laid it out, Curtis could certainly form a conference made up of his teams or his teams as well as others. The extent that the UWFFL would be involved would be limited to us sanctioning it as an official conference. Those teams would be eligible for the Union Cup, but whether we would want to grant the Champion of such a Conference an automatic berth in the Champions League I think we would have to decide at some point.

Curtis Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:16 pm

Any league has to start first with a logo/patch.... The Independent League. Its a work in progress.

**Austin Snelick** Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:32 pm

Curtis wrote:Any league has to start first with a logo/patch.... The Independent League. Its a work in progress.

I'd like to set the over/under for the number of teams Curtis personally owns and creates in the independent league by 2024 at 48 teams.

Curtis Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:49 pm

Austin Snelick wrote:
Curtis wrote:Any league has to start first with a logo/patch.... The Independent League. Its a work in progress.

I'd like to set the over/under for the number of teams Curtis personally owns and creates in the independent league by 2024 at 48 teams.

I’ll do an update for some teams I’ve had since 2014 in the old UWFFL. I may come up with a couple of new ones, if an idea comes to me lol.

Drew Abernathy Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:22 pm

Idaho Falls Moose might make an appearance in the league!

Drew Abernathy Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:24 pm

I may have a couple other teams around my ownership group that I could load.

**Rob Holecko** Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:15 am

I'd just to like clear something up. There isn't an independent league. There may be independent teams. And if a certain number of independent teams want to band together and form their own league, they may organize themselves and do so. But there isn't a singularly UWFFL-sanctioned "independent" league. If, for example a group of eight independent teams want to get together and call themselves the "Curtis League" or the "Tangerine League" or the "Yoo Hoo League", they may do so. But if a ninth independent team comes along and declares themselves to be an independent team, they won't automatically be part of the Yoo Hoo League. They can ask them if they can join, or they can join with other independent teams and form their own conference/league.

But there isn't automatically a league just called the "Independent League". If the first group of independent teams that organize a league want to call themselves the "Independent League", they may, however, that may turn out to be confusing, because not all independent teams will automatically become members of this particular "Independent League" just by declaring themselves independent.

Right now all we have are six independent teams, and one that has stated they "may". My New Orleans and Curtis' Toledo, Wichita, Philadelphia, Memphis, Indiana squads. And Andrew posted that Idaho Falls may become independent.

So if those teams, or any particular group of them, want to form their own conference/league they may do so. But right now they are just independent teams.

**Rob Holecko** Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:28 am

So here's another thing....

Take for instance Toledo, Wichita, Philadelphia, Memphis, Indiana versus Houston, Cleveland, Virginia Beach.

Those first five teams would be additional teams that Curtis would lose to the Peddle Rule if they returned to Division II. The next three teams are teams that Andrew owns, and if they were to return to Division II, he would also lose them to the Peddle Rule. Curtis has declared those teams to be independent, therefore he won't lose them, he will retain ownership of them, however they will lose their status as a Division II team, and they will become independent.

So Andrew can similarly decide whether to declare Houston, Cleveland, Virginia Beach independent and keep them, or he can let them stay in Division II (assuming they are invited back, which will depend on the number of expansion teams, and the open slots that are remaining) in which case if they are invited back, he will lose them to the Peddle Rule. If he does nothing, and they don't get invited back, they will automatically become 'independent'. He can try to schedule games with other independent teams, he can seek to join an independent league, he can contact Curtis and if the two of them want to form their own independent league they can or those teams can just exist, and not play any games, that's up to him.

So if Andrew and Curtis get together with their eight teams and form their own conference, they may ask me (as owner of New Orleans) if the Lions would like to be a part of that league, but as merely an independent team, New Orleans wouldn't automatically be part of this league that Curtis/Andrew formed just by them being independent.

Curtis Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:57 am

Rob Holecko wrote:I'd just to like clear something up. There isn't an independent league. There may be independent teams. And if a certain number of independent teams want to band together and form their own league, they may organize themselves and do so. But there isn't a singularly UWFFL-sanctioned "independent" league. If, for example a group of eight independent teams want to get together and call themselves the "Curtis League" or the "Tangerine League" or the "Yoo Hoo League", they may do so. But if a ninth independent team comes along and declares themselves to be an independent team, they won't automatically be part of the Yoo Hoo League. They can ask them if they can join, or they can join with other independent teams and form their own conference/league.

But there isn't automatically a league just called the "Independent League". If the first group of independent teams that organize a league want to call themselves the "Independent League", they may, however, that may turn out to be confusing, because not all independent teams will automatically become members of this particular "Independent League" just by declaring themselves independent.

Right now all we have are six independent teams, and one that has stated they "may". My New Orleans and Curtis' Toledo, Wichita, Philadelphia, Memphis, Indiana squads. And Andrew posted that Idaho Falls may become independent.

So if those teams, or any particular group of them, want to form their own conference/league they may do so. But right now they are just independent teams.

Yes I was just throwing it out there for a laugh , I realize that there isn’t an independent league, not yet anyways. I was going to revamp the logo/patch so the Peddle teams will be wearing it and they would have some sense of union under my ownership umbrella.

Curtis Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:06 am

Curtis wrote:Any league has to start first with a logo/patch.... The Independent League. Its a work in progress.

Here’s another thought…once I revise this for the CP group I will keep black and orange as my colors. If somebody wants to take the patch and revise for their teams they are welcome. For example maybe Andrew could put “ AS” on the helmets and use blue and gold, or Rob could use “ RH” and red and green etc. It’s available to use if you want, entirely up to you. Best kind !

Curtis Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Here is the Independent Franchise patch , feel free to tweak as you like. Plus, the new and hopefully improved Toledo Snipers , sporting the patch on the home uni.

**Rob Holecko** Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:35 pm

I like it, but I really liked the old purple and yellow Snipers too, too bad they didn't translate to wins on the field!

Curtis Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:55 pm

Rob Holecko wrote:I like it, but I really liked the old purple and yellow Snipers too, too bad they didn't translate to wins on the field!

Thanks dude , yeah I had the Terror, Memphis and Pontiac in shades of purple , so I was looking to change it up a bit . I still got those purple Snipers unis, they may come back as a throwback one of these days, Smile

Curtis Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:22 pm

Philadelphia Union home
- new Liberty Bell patch to collar
- Peddle Independent patch
- New logo - the " U "

Heard on Sunday night football lineup intros :
Alvin Whitaker....running back...( long pause) ...the " U "

Drew Abernathy Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:24 pm

How many do we have in the independent league?

I'll get the Moose in.
I will possibly get another one in soon, too!

**Rob Holecko** Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:11 am

There is no independent league... there are independent teams... as many as people create!

Although Greg Dickman was reporting that he heard rumors that you were looking to form a "Gulf Coast Conference" of at least six teams across the Southeast, including Houston, Memphis, New Orleans, Jacksonville and possibly other teams to be announced. New Orleans is the only team of mine that has officially declared independent, and I haven't announced that if Rhinos have decided to go independent or if they were to stay in the Metro South (where I'd lose them to the Peddle Rule), but if there was an invitation to join, we might take it. As for your teams, you do need to officially announce that you intend to take Cleveland, Houston or Virginia Beach independent, otherwise if they stay in their league (as it looks like since there are little to no expansion candidates, teams with losing records will be returning) you will lose them to the Peddle Rule as well.

Let us know if there are any truth to these rumors, or was Dickman smoking something (again).....

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:27 am

I wasn't planning on forming be a league. Just independent teams. I may make Houston Independent and put a few others in the mix (likely Scotties team)

**Rob Holecko** Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:29 am

I see.. I think Dickman might have gotten confused. Doesn't surprise me!

Greg Dickman Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:35 am

Rob Holecko wrote:I see.. I think Dickman might have gotten confused. Doesn't surprise me!

I was not able to confirm that it was Abernathy that was looking to form the conference, but I stand by my reporting. A source close to the matter has confirmed that there is some interest in forming a Gulf Coast Conference including at least Drew's Houston club, your New Orleans club and Curtis' Memphis club, among others. We also heard that they were going to have a championship game in Houston, and they would also announce a new bowl in New Orleans called the Cajun Bowl which would invite the 5th place team of the Metro South to play the Gulf Coast Conference Champion. We assumed it was Abernathy because the Championship game was going to be in Houston, but we haven't been able to confirm that. Apparently he is denying it was him, so we don't know who is planning this. Perhaps Jake Akbehavi? How about Curtis? Anyway I guess we'll find out sooner or later

Curtis Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:02 am

I knows nuttin, nuttin I`m tellin ya ! Sounds like a good idea though.

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:36 pm

Idaho Falls Moose are ready to give y'all an IFFY season!!

Going back to their 2015 Halftone Togs

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:39 pm

Air Force Tribute
Basque Heritage Unis
THE PEWTERING!!

Curtis Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:45 pm

Drew Abernathy wrote:Air Force Tribute
Basque Heritage Unis
THE PEWTERING!!

Damn sweet !!

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:46 pm

Scottdale (Pittsburgh, PA) Scotties is Independent - THROW YOUR HANDS UP AT ME!!!

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:50 pm

Finally,

After much deliberation, signs, banging on cans and yelling:

The Houston Quasars have declared their independence.

Curtis Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:53 pm

The Memphis Golden Hawks redesign
- Home - purple and gold
- Road - mono white
- Peddle independent patch
- Talon design to the shoulder stripe
- tweaked the wing logo to the helmet.
Hope you like them...

**Rob Holecko** Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:11 pm

Very nice, guys!

Drew Abernathy Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:20 pm

Thanks, m'son!!

Curtis wrote:
Drew Abernathy wrote:Air Force Tribute
Basque Heritage Unis
THE PEWTERING!!

Damn sweet !!

Curtis Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:20 pm

Indiana Blaze
- formerly the Indiana Lynx ...not sure why I called them that, there are no lynx in Indiana, only bobcats.
- retaining the colors
- new logo - blazing " I " football
- mono gray alt. Been doing that lately. Wanted to do a fauxback for the Blaze but struggled with it and couldn`t get it right.
- blazing I patch to the collar and " I " sleeve patches.
- Peddle Independent patch.

Curtis Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Ladies and gentlemen, the latest Independent team in the Peddle franchise group..the Ottawa Cupcakes...wait..what ?

This is a franchise that I adopted from the UWFFL league office ca. 2014. They were briefly known as the Cincinnati Cupcakes and they competed as such in the UWFFL Developmental League around 2014-15 or so. Details are sketchy about their record , and the UWFFL have been unable to provide much background on origins etc. I do however have the original 2 pixel black helmet pic that I originally based my adoption on, and I am including it here.

A conflict also arose with the city of Cincinnati at the time, as the Cupcakes quickly became a laughing stock of the fledgling league because of their name , and attendance was poor as well.

So now the 7 year dormancy is ending , and us at Peddle group are announcing that Ottawa has adopted the Cupcakes . Will they still be a laughing stock of the imaginary football brotherhood ..? yes perhaps , but so are the politicians in Ottawa who have been representing this great nation of Canada ..so it all fits doesn`t it ??

With the adoption, Peddle group has worked with unnamed uni designers to give a nice refresh to the Cupcakes , with black, gold and white as the basis of the unis.

So here are home and road, with the Peddle patch for the Ottawa Cupcakes ..and sorry for the long post it has been 7 years and a few layers of dust brushed off of my usb to re hash this team.

Duncan Hynes has assumed the GM role for the Cupcakes, no other details will be given.

CP

**Rob Holecko** Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:36 pm

Duncan Hynes lol

Curtis Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:21 pm

Rob Holecko wrote:Duncan Hynes lol

Yeah I figured you would pick up what I was layin down there Mr Holecko.

Curtis Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:44 pm

Here is the 6th team in the Peddle Independent Franchise Ownership Group ( PIFOG) , the Wichita Arrows. The Arrows started in the Developmental League ca 2013 and attained success almost immediately. Their unique blend of green and orange proved they were a force, and were promoted to the Central League.
Tough competition in DIv II of the UWFFL and injuries hampered the Arrows , and they struggled to a 6-7-1 mark in 2014 before the league went on hiatus.

The Arrows return as an independent , retaining the orange and green, as well as the " A " arrow logo in a fresh new design. Features include :
- Peddle Franchise patch
- mono cream road unis.
- custom number font designed by me
- arrow player number decal to the lt side of the helmet.

Can a return to the Central be in the works ?

Curtis Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:00 pm

Now that the Peddle independent teams have reached a nice even number of 6, we have decided to compete amongst ourselves for the 2021 PIFOG Independence Cup this fall.
Rules to follow, but each team will play every other team once on the road and at home. Top 4 make the playoffs.
NOTE : My teams will continue to play against other independent teams , and will consider invitations to join with other independent teams in various leagues if there are any. This is an additional competition among the Peddle teams.

The following teams will compete :
- Ottawa Cupcakes
- Philadelphia Union
- Memphis Golden Hawks
- Toledo Snipers
- Wichita Arrows
- Indiana Blaze

Rob I can generate results myself with a random number generator if you don`t have time to do the simulations on these games.

Here`s a look at the cup/logo

**Rob Holecko** Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:00 pm

The Pee-FOG is going to be a tough bunch of teams!

Curtis Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:23 pm

Rob Holecko wrote:The Pee-FOG is going to be a tough bunch of teams!

Haha stay tuned for a new logo for the PIFOG group. it could be PEE FOG or maybe PI ( PIE) FOG. I know the anticipation is burnin you up Commish Holecko. I`ll post it here in the next day or so I hope.

Greg Dickman Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:35 am

Rob Holecko wrote:The Pee-FOG is going to be a tough bunch of teams!

Now when he says they're going to be a tough bunch of teams, is he saying 'tough' like really hard to beat, or 'tough' like really bad beef jerky?

Curtis Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:00 am

Greg Dickman wrote:
Rob Holecko wrote:The Pee-FOG is going to be a tough bunch of teams!

Now when he says they're going to be a tough bunch of teams, is he saying 'tough' like really hard to beat, or 'tough' like really bad beef jerky?

Maybe both. Only Holecko knows for sure. Bad beef jerky is tough on the guts, maybe that`s what he means. The Korean BBQ stuff is great though.
Looking forward to the next Union Cup minute Dickman.

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